Points importation

by Omran @, France, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 10:22 (68 days ago)

Hello,

I have a project to recalculate the coordinates of a network of reference points that had been calculated a long time ago. I have made measurements with a tachometer and I would like to use the JAG3D software in order to obtain new coordinates. I imported my measurements, however, I don't know where I should import my points, they are mostly references for which I have approximate coordinates, so I thought I would import them into stochastic points. There are also free stations which I don't know where to import them from. I made various attempts but each time the software told me that "iteration limit of adjustment process reached but without satisfactory convergence. I know however that my data is valid because I managed to obtain conclusive results with another software: COMP3D. I must nevertheless use JAG3D as part of my project, do you have any solutions to give me? Any help would be appreciated.

I thank you fully for your time, cordially,

Edoo Omran.

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 10:37 (68 days ago) @ Omran

Hello Edoo,

I imported my measurements,

Do you use an official file provided by the total station (e.g. a GSI file from Leica) to import your data or do you organise the date in simple ASCII files? Does each set of directions have its own group (an individual item in the tree menu)? Please note, it is not possible to combine all observation types with each point dimension. For instance, if you have planar 2D network, leveling data are not supported. There is a table in the (German) documentation that explains the supported combinations.

they are mostly references for which I have approximate coordinates, so I thought I would import them into stochastic points.

JAG3D supports three (four) point types. Reference points are points having known (fixed) coordinates. Stochastic points have known coordinates, too. In contrast to reference points, stochastic points allow to specify some uncertainties and will be adjusted within the adjustment process. If points are unknown, the new point type is recommended. (In case of a free network adjustment, new points can be divided into datum points and new points).
Depending on your task/project, select the desired point types.

There are also free stations which I don't know where to import them from.

If the position is unknown, import the approximation values to a new point group.

Kind regards
Micha

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Tags:
JAG3D, Import, Point, Reference point, Datum point, Stochastic point, Approximation values

Points importation

by Omran @, France, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 12:05 (68 days ago) @ Micha

Thank you for your reply Micha,

"Do you use an official file provided by the total station (e.g. a GSI file from Leica) to import your data or do you organise the date in simple ASCII files?"

I wanted to import the raw data in GSI format but it didn't work (nothing happened) so I created a text file where I copied the data.

"Does each set of directions have its own group (an individual item in the tree menu)?"

I have a file for the zenithal angles, another for the horizontal angles and a last for the distances. So one file only per group of mesurement type in the tree menu.

"...depending on your task/project, select the desired point types."

Ok so I tried to use the datum points but it could not invert the normal equation matrix.

Thank you for your help,
Edoo.

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 12:17 (68 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

I wanted to import the raw data in GSI format but it didn't work (nothing happened) so I created a text file where I copied the data.

Can you temporary provide the GSI (e.g. using Dropbox or such kind of service)?

I have a file for the zenithal angles, another for the horizontal angles and a last for the distances. So one file only per group of mesurement type in the tree menu.

Okay, but were the directions separated by sets during the import or was only one tree item added per observation type?

"...depending on your task/project, select the desired point types."

Ok so I tried to use the datum points but it could not invert the normal equation matrix.

Within a free-network adjustment, only datum points and unknown new points are valid/supported point types. That means, you can not use reference points and/or stochastic points together in a project with datum points.

regards
Micha

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Tags:
JAG3D, Leica, GSI, Observation group

Points importation

by Omran @, France, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 12:31 (68 days ago) @ Micha

Hello Micha,

"Can you temporary provide the GSI (e.g. using Dropbox or such kind of service)?"

Of course: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uz2rf1efszl6kmm/190721OIYJ.gsi?dl=0

"Okay, but were the directions separated by sets during the import or was only one tree item added per observation type?"

In fact for the slope distances and zenith angles it was only one tree item but for the direction sets I have several tree items containing one stations each, here is a screenshot: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/exc1xubl3wl3b6c/AACL-ggM7KZtjJ-MCvLN1eEKa?dl=0

Regards
Edoo.

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 12:42 (68 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

Of course: https://www.dropbox.com/s/uz2rf1efszl6kmm/190721OIYJ.gsi?dl=0

Okay, thank you. I took a look to your provided file. The problem is, that no station line is defined. The file contains observations but it is not clear where the observations come from. This is the first line:

110001+0PIL5999 21.322+11843030 22.322+10998153 31..00+00026382 51....+0000+034 87..10+00000000 71....+00000000 72....+00000000 73....+00000000 74....+00000000 

It defines the observation to the point PIL5999, but what was the station name? Since this information is not given, JAG3D ignores the observations.

In fact for the slope distances and zenith angles it was only one tree item but for the direction sets I have several tree items containing one stations each, here is a screenshot: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/exc1xubl3wl3b6c/AACL-ggM7KZtjJ-MCvLN1eEKa?dl=0

Okay, perfect. Due to the unknown orientation of each direction set, these observations must be separated. Zenit angles or slope distances can be organised by a single group - that is okay.

If the project is still not running, maybe, you can upload/provide the JAG3D database of you project (3 files: data, properties and script file).


Kind regards
Micha

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applied-geodesy.org - OpenSource Least-Squares Adjustment Software for Geodetic Sciences

Points importation

by Omran @, France, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 12:57 (68 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Thank you for your reply, I'll try to modify the gsi to be able to import it, but I do not understand why it does not work with my text file. Here is the database of my project: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggeokmjruxbr4xp/omran_jag3d.zip?dl=0

Kind regards,
Edoo.

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 13:10 (68 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

Here is the database of my project

I create a new project from your provided data but in a local frame. This works well. You can download the project here. Please note: I do not analysis the network.

kind regards
Micha

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applied-geodesy.org - OpenSource Least-Squares Adjustment Software for Geodetic Sciences

Points importation

by Omran @, France, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 13:21 (68 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Thank you very much! But how did you create it in a local frame?

Kind regards,
Edoo.

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 13:33 (68 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

Thank you very much! But how did you create it in a local frame?

I defined the local frame because your provided coordinate file contains more points then needed. For instance BOR9 is never used within the project and must be excluded. Moreover, some points are missing e.g. CIB11.

The local frame was derived by JAG3D but you can also use your official coordinates. You just have to exclude the unnecessary points like BOR9 and so on.

Kind regards
Micha

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applied-geodesy.org - OpenSource Least-Squares Adjustment Software for Geodetic Sciences

Points importation

by Omran @, France, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 13:37 (68 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

I'll try to do that, thank you very much you helped me a lot!

Kind regards,
Edoo

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 13:53 (68 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

this is your project using your provided coordinates (I interchanged X and Y).

[image]

/Micha

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applied-geodesy.org - OpenSource Least-Squares Adjustment Software for Geodetic Sciences

Points importation

by Omran @, France, Friday, July 23, 2021, 07:16 (67 days ago) @ Micha

Hello Micha,

I added the missing points and deleted the unnecessary points but it do not work, is it possible that you send me the project you made with my coordinates for me to compare it with mine, if you still have it?

Kind regards,
Edoo

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Friday, July 23, 2021, 07:25 (67 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

I updated the zip file: omran.zip

/Micha

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Points importation

by Omran @, France, Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:27 (67 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Is it you that disabled some measures (like the BOR2 to BOR6 direction sets measure for example)? Did you delete the a-priori uncertainty of the measures in the data? And when you added the CIB11 and the CIB12 points, what coordinates did you assign to them? I updated my file to be identical as yours but it do not work I do not understand. If you want to check, here it is : https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmain19nc1r6kzu/omran_2.zip?dl=0

Thank you for your time,
Edoo

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:53 (67 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

Is it you that disabled some measures (like the BOR2 to BOR6 direction sets measure for example)?

Yes, I disabled some observations that seem disputable (at least for me). But it is on your own to analyse your network (and to enable/disable observations).

Did you delete the a-priori uncertainty of the measures in the data?

Yes. Some of your provided values were negative and, thus, wrong by definition of an uncertainty. So, I was not sure what the last column in you files represent. Since JAG3D supports group based stochastic models, there is no need to specify individuell uncertainties. Please take a look to the video tutorials to get an impression on how it works in a better way.

And when you added the CIB11 and the CIB12 points, what coordinates did you assign to them?

The coordinates given in the raw data table were the assigned values for both points. These values are calculated by JAG3D.

I updated my file to be identical as yours but it do not work I do not understand.

No, your project is not identical. You do not interchange x and y, as I already mentioned.

/Micha

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Points importation

by Omran @, France, Friday, July 23, 2021, 09:16 (67 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Okay I will watch the videos, thank you it works and a last question, why have we to inverse the x and y coordinates?

Edoo

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Friday, July 23, 2021, 09:18 (67 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

why have we to inverse the x and y coordinates?

The definition of a mathematical coordinate system differs from the definition of a geodetic system. JAG3D uses a geodetic coordinate system (North = x; East = y).

/Micha

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Points importation

by Omran @, Tuesday, July 27, 2021, 12:10 (63 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Ok I understand thank you.
How can I indicate to Jag that some points are free stations? I tried to put them into the "new points" group without coordinates (0 0 0 instead) thinking that it won't influence calculation but it seems that I was wrong, so I approximate these coordinates and now it works but really badly.

Here is my project if you want to check : https://www.dropbox.com/s/jmain19nc1r6kzu/omran_2.zip?dl=0

Kind regards,
Omran

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Tuesday, July 27, 2021, 15:30 (63 days ago) @ Omran

Hello Omran,

I tried to put them into the "new points" group without coordinates (0 0 0 instead) thinking that it won't influence calculation

Least squares adjustment works only in linear models. Since planar or spatial networks are nonlinear problems, one has to linearize the functional model using a first-order Taylor series. For that reason, appropriate approximation values must be specified by the user. In most cases, [0/0/0] is not a useful choice.

kind regards
Micha

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applied-geodesy.org - OpenSource Least-Squares Adjustment Software for Geodetic Sciences

Points importation

by Omran @, Tuesday, July 27, 2021, 16:02 (63 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Okay but with coordinates approximate at few meters it should work right? And should I treat free stations like reference stations ?

Thanks,
Omran

Points importation

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Tuesday, July 27, 2021, 17:11 (63 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

Okay but with coordinates approximate at few meters it should work right?

It depends on several factors - the better the approximation values, the better the convergence behavior.

And should I treat free stations like reference stations ?

You are the only person who can answer this question. I am just the developer of a piece of software but I am not a member of your project. Please contact your supervisor.

Kind regards
Micha

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GSI file with station

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Thursday, July 22, 2021, 13:38 (68 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

I'll try to modify the gsi to be able to import it

A valid GSI looks like

110306+00090073 84..16+00000000 85..16+00000000 86..16+00000000 87..16+00000000 88..16+00000000 
110307+00090074 87..16+00000000 88..16+00000000 31..06+01088065 21.322+29676045 32..16+01088053 33..16-00005150 22.322+10030107 51..1.-0007+000 81..06-01086644 82..06-00055344 83..06-00005150 
110308+00090072 87..16+00000000 88..16+00000000 31..06+00795234 21.322+08078441 32..16+00795211 33..16+00005996 22.322+09952104 51..1.-0007+000 81..06+00759261 82..06+00236397 83..06+00005996 
...

The first line defines a station followed by the measurements obtained at this station, i.e., from 90073 to 90074, from 90073 to 90072 etc. The station line does not contain observations (just coordinates coded by 84, 85, 86).

kind regards
Micha

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Tags:
JAG3D, Leica, GSI, Observation, Station

GSI file with station

by Omran @, France, Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:41 (67 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Okay and do I have to have the same code that in your example? And do I have to keep the same order that in your example?

Thanks,
Edoo

GSI file with station

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Friday, July 23, 2021, 08:59 (67 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

Okay and do I have to have the same code that in your example? And do I have to keep the same order that in your example?

The GSI is provided by the instrument. Usually, the instrument generates such a valid file. However, if you do not use the station setup program provided by the instrument, the instrument is not able to add a line for the current station. The information or data provided by the GSI depends on your workflow during the field work. Please read the GSI file description and the instrument manual for details.

/Micha

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Tags:
JAG3D, Leica, GSI, Observation, Station

GSI file with station

by Omran @, France, Friday, July 23, 2021, 09:39 (67 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

Okey I understand thank you, I am coding a convertor for my actual gsi file with the gsi convention documentation.

Kind regards,
Edoo

GSI file with station

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Friday, July 23, 2021, 09:48 (67 days ago) @ Omran

Hello,

I am coding a convertor for my actual gsi file with the gsi convention documentation.

In the directory Leica FRT-Files, two format files are provided for two types of Leica instruments. Maybe, one of the file is helpful for your coding.

/Micha

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Tags:
JAG3D, Leica, GSI, Observation, Station, FRT

GSI file with station

by Omran @, France, Friday, July 23, 2021, 13:28 (67 days ago) @ Micha

Hello,

I saw in the leica documentation that normally when you add a station in the tacheomter it add a line in the raw file called bloc code beginning with '41' but it seems that jag3d do not identify this code, do you know something about that? I know that you can also indicate to jag3d that you add a station with a code '11' like you show me before but I still wanted to know if it is possible to add a bloc code.

Kind regards,
Edoo

GSI file with station

by Micha ⌂, Bad Vilbel, Friday, July 23, 2021, 15:45 (67 days ago) @ Omran

Hi,

I saw in the leica documentation that normally when you add a station in the tacheomter it add a line in the raw file called bloc code beginning with '41' but it seems that jag3d do not identify this code, do you know something about that?

Code 41 does not represent/indicate a station. It is the code for the point type, e.g., a tree, a landmark, a traffic sign, a gully cover etc. So, code 41 is valid for all lines. (Btw: JAG3D reads the code.)

I know that you can also indicate to jag3d that you add a station with a code '11' like you show me before but I still wanted to know if it is possible to add a bloc code.

Code 11 does not indicate a station, too. It is the point id/name. Like for code 41, 11 is valid for all lines (and required).

In short: There is no specific bloc code in GSI that specify the station. However, bloc codes 81, 82, 83, and 84, 85, 86 have a semantic meaning.

/Micha

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Tags:
JAG3D, Leica, GSI, Observation, Station, Bloc code

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